How to Create a Customer Experience Brand - Jesse Derris

Podcast Recording - How to Create Customer Experience Brand

Jesse Derris is the founder and CEO of Derris & Company, a PR, branding, and communications firm based in New York. His firm has worked with companies like Warby Parker, lululemon, Oscar, and more. He and his firm are widely applauded for their work with high-growth startups, particularly those with a consumer focus.

✅ Hey guys! Enjoy this EPIC interview w/ acclaimed gifted speaker, and Brand Consult Jesse Derris! Jesse takes us all the way back to his college days and shares with us his backstory which ultimately shaped his career and his future!🙌 Jesse shares TONS of gems in this one! What is your favorite lesson from this interview?! Let us know in the comment section below!


JEsse derris: [00:00:00] Hey

[00:00:01] Rishi Sharma: [00:00:01] everyone. Welcome to take care of today's guest is Jesse Derrius, CEO of Derrius and company, a PR and branding agency, working with iconic brands like Warby Parker, Luma, Lulu, lemon, and many more. welcome, Jesse. Really excited to have you here.

[00:00:17] JEsse derris: [00:00:17] Thanks for having me.

[00:00:19] Rishi Sharma: [00:00:19] So I'd just like to start the conversation, with the, with everybody, all the yes.

[00:00:23] That we have. and kind of just go into your backstory and kind of what led you to start a Garrison company and, you know, start to work with all these brands that everybody reveres right now.

[00:00:35] JEsse derris: [00:00:35] Yeah, I mean, my, my background, There's a little meandering. I started my career in politics. mostly I, I first started working at a small consulting agency.

[00:00:46] I'm working on a mixture of different types of clients. And then I'm working on a succession of, of campaigns. I'm mostly on the presidential level, and I, you know, all democratic campaigns and was, you know, a relatively junior spokes, but not relatively. That was a very junior spokesman on a bunch of, on a bunch of those campaigns.

[00:01:08]and, and after that I kind of found my way back to New York. I'm working at a small, at the time. agency, that's now called sunshine stacks. I, helped build their crisis business, and, was doing mostly that when the technology movement started to take off again in New York and kind of 2005, 2006, and just by virtue of where I was and the firm and the types of work that we would see, kind of ended up working on a little bit of tech work, naturally.

[00:01:38]then met, Ben Lear and, and . They were getting Thrillist off the ground and help them do PDR. and, and that led to a faithful phone call in the fall of 2008 from a friend of a friend who called me one day after starting business school. So tell me, he had this idea to, sell glasses online.

[00:01:57]and, his name was Neil Blumenthal and he eventually built a Warby Parker. which was pretty incredible. Yeah. And so I've had the blessing to get to work with those guys since the very beginning, at first helping them with tech press and, and more of the social responsibilities and, and then expanding out and starting to help them more with their consumer facing work as well.

[00:02:16]and the idea for came specifically from that work on Warby, on, you know, working on alongside all of the kind of . Really brilliant people that were being collected to help, you know, build that company. and watching me on Dave, specifically, and their approach to talking with consumers and then, and then telling larger stories about their company.

[00:02:40]I thought it was a sort of an odd thing. That they had to bring together all of these disparate partners. even in PR at the time, they had to bring in two firms to kind of help them, cause there was no one firm that could do the job effectively. And so the original idea for this place was, why don't I build a place, that would be able to service a company that looked and behaved like Parker.

[00:03:01]as a one stop shop. and, and so that's why we started and we just happen to time it, right. the kind of early direct consumer, brand development really well. And, and in succession, you know, we're super lucky, right? As we started to work on Warby, and then Harry's and Everlane and reformation and law CA.

[00:03:21] And my wife, launched Lola. you know, we did hymns and a whole bunch of others. It's, it's, it's been a pretty amazing ride.

[00:03:28] Rishi Sharma: [00:03:28] That's, that's great to hear. so just curious about your experience with working with political campaigns. I'm just curious to see as somebody myself who's worked on political campaigns as well, if you find any translation between working with on these political campaigns and working with these, these fast moving

[00:03:43] JEsse derris: [00:03:43] startups.

[00:03:44] Rishi Sharma: [00:03:44] Well,

[00:03:45] JEsse derris: [00:03:45] the short answer is yes. the longer answer is that all selling is selling. And that a lot of the stuff that we do and a lot of the tactics and strategy that we employ at Doris born from kind of, you know, my experience in politics, but more importantly, watching other people with far more experience in politics.

[00:04:07]and so, you know, the, the, the very easy way to describe it is that the candidate, the product, the brand. that has, you're kind of two things generally always wins. First is a short, positive, highly repeatable narrative, that enables or empowers people to see themselves in that narrative or to see what they can get out of that narrative on the one hand.

[00:04:31] And then on the other hand, the ability to define your opponent, is incredibly important. And so to me. Those kind of two things exists. What, whether you're selling a political candidate or you're selling, you know, rice a Roni, it doesn't matter. You're still explaining to people in repetitive messaging why you're better and why you're better for them.

[00:04:55]and you're explaining or trying to define who and what your opponent is or what the defining kind of, you know, what the, what the brand leader is there, et cetera. So it's just finding yourself into fighting your opponent. Doesn't matter what you're selling.

[00:05:11] Rishi Sharma: [00:05:11] Thanks for breaking that down. I think there's a, like you said, a good correlation between the selling is selling.

[00:05:16]you've mentioned in other interviews and other talks that you've given, like you work with your clients to develop. A story telling engine. How does that go about? Like how do you approach that with a brand or somebody or working to develop that? That's that storytelling

[00:05:31] JEsse derris: [00:05:31] engine. I mean, in large part, there has to be something intrinsic to one of the founders or somebody at the brand so that they're able to do that.

[00:05:41] I think it's very hard to replicate that in an agency, but we tend to think of, we tend to think like, the entire idea of direct consumer is sort of a misnomer, you know, direct as a channel. But that channel has existed since the beginning of time. you know, people, you know, I, I kind of grew up buying from direct brands.

[00:05:59]you know, places like J, crew and Abercrombie. and, but they've existed forever. I mean, you can go back and find Sears catalogs from the 18 hundreds, And what actually changes that most of the companies that we've had, the , you know, privilege to work on, cared deeply about customer experiences.

[00:06:14] So they want to have a discussion with consumers as opposed to speaking at them. Yep. and so they tend to be defined. by certain characteristics. And one of them is the story telling engine. and so, you know, there's no way to describe it. That is without talking about the first two, which is the first is that they all have positioning.

[00:06:32] That's real, that's organic. That is, you know, that is honest. They exist for a specific reason, and that reason isn't just like, I need to sell you stuff. the second is that they make products, that honestly reflect that position. And they're not just making stuff to make it. They only make things.

[00:06:49] When they can do it in an honest way that reflects who they are as a business. and the third, out of the five is the storytelling engine. They're able to kind of continue to iterate their product or to create new products, on the one hand or, to figure out different ways to tell stories about their positioning.

[00:07:08]in some sort of repetitious way. So, they're able to set up a cadence that works for them, whether it's four times a year or 24 times a year, where they're able to generate a story, either through their product or through their positioning, and they're able to tell that story, through all the channels that are helpful for them.

[00:07:26] One of them, obviously is PR urn. Organic, social, paid, social, radio, out-of-home, all the other channels. and then all of them exist and are able to tell these stories, both digitally and in person, in some way, shape, or form. but for us, it's, you know, the, the most important thing is that, is that all the brands that we work with exist for an honest reason.

[00:07:47] And once you have that and some version of product development. helping folks kind of tease out stories and try to look for stories is sort of the third thing. And it's building that muscle that helps brands figure out, kind of how they're going to market. Okay.

[00:08:01] Rishi Sharma: [00:08:01] Is there a particular, client of yours or an example that you think illustrates that the best in terms of just executing on, on creating that, that engine and then positioning the product very well

[00:08:12] JEsse derris: [00:08:12] or the brand very

[00:08:13] Rishi Sharma: [00:08:13] well?

[00:08:15] JEsse derris: [00:08:15] Yeah, I mean, You know, they're not even our client. We worked with them before, but I think sweet green does this incredibly well. You know, they, exist for this reason to help, you know, excite people through passion and purpose and, and food. they clearly, exist to help farmers in, to help.

[00:08:34]and to help, you know, to help farmers on the one hand, to help people be healthy on the other. they do terrific kind of menu creation and storytelling through their menus. They do amazing partnerships that reflect their brand values, whether they're with chefs or with brands. and, and then they, they speak through their service and the things they can give back to their community.

[00:08:55] And I always, it's a little self serving for me to talk about our clients, so it's easier to talk about somebody that's not ours. but those guys do an incredible job. I'm kind of doing stories that are repetitive. that are rich, that are deep, that are honest, and then that they're able to go back to consumers with repetitively.

[00:09:11] Rishi Sharma: [00:09:11] Okay. And, in regards to just use, just riff on sweet cream since you brought it up. You know, if a company is coming out and what's to say they want to like, I guess the competitive there is, would be like a simple salad, which is a totally different positioning. how would you, how would a customer, that's a new answer or a new vendor or company in this space that's a new.

[00:09:31]a new, a competitor to Sweetgreen. How would they assess their positioning relative to the market? Like how do you brands go about that when they're entering a new market and they're

[00:09:40] JEsse derris: [00:09:40] testing, right? I mean, it should be implicit in the reason that they. You know, that they chose to start their company in the first place, like they better have a pretty clear idea of why they started it.

[00:09:53]and so typically speak gig. The first bit of positioning that a brand does is just purely the pain point that caused the founders start the company in the first place. This is why I've always had such problems with like a large company incubators and things like that because they're almost trying to, like, they're trying to figure out a new brand based on research.

[00:10:14] And when, when, when, what's birth? So many of the brands that are working today, was a specific pain point to a specific person. That then became articulatable through a brand and through the product that that brand produced. and so to me, you know, if you're launching a competitor to sweet cream, it should be because you think something is specifically missing there that you've gotta add to the world, and that's why you exist.

[00:10:40] The challenge isn't like that first product and the first thing, it's the 10th. it's figuring out a way to iterate the reason you exist.

[00:10:47] Rishi Sharma: [00:10:47] Yeah. The purpose changes along the way.

[00:10:51] JEsse derris: [00:10:51] Well, it's not even that it changes, but it's going to evolve for sure. But you have to figure out like different manifestations on bad purpose that are honest too.

[00:10:59] Yeah. Yes. You know, you can't, yeah. You can't start doing different things just to do them if they're not on as to why you started in the first place.

[00:11:07] Rishi Sharma: [00:11:07] Yeah, I mean, I will greatly, I look at it, it's like Amazon started doing books and now they've kind of evolved to sell everything. Right. As a,

[00:11:16] JEsse derris: [00:11:16] because, because Amazon is a customer experience company.

[00:11:19] Yeah. Like, you know, and it doesn't matter if that customer experience. His books, or everyday consumables, or the cloud. like they exist to like eliminate friction from people's lives. and so if that's why they exist, then you know, they have the ability to take that mission and interpret through the widest possible lens what they're doing.

[00:11:46] no, I

[00:11:47] Rishi Sharma: [00:11:47] definitely agree with that. And, so prior to this whole certain circumstance, that brand with the coven 19 that's currently undergoing, there was a big push by a lot of direct to consumer rants to do an online, offline presence. and this, this whole thing is kind of really stopped retail and a lot of bays.

[00:12:04] And, You know, potentially could change consumers behavior. Do you still bet brands should look to have an online and offline experience? It should be more selective should it? How should that somebody look at that in this new world post post coven? Yeah. I

[00:12:18] JEsse derris: [00:12:18] mean, listen, I, I, what's going on right now is just, it's tragic on a thousand different levels.

[00:12:25] Absolutely. Loss of life and the loss of economic means and all these other kind of terrible things. I, I do think in the long run, human behavior behavior tends to revert back to the mean. I do think it's going to take a while for restaurants and, and stores to recover back to their full potential, but I do think they'll get there.

[00:12:49]and I do think that people still crave tactile experiences. and I don't think that's gonna change. W we tended to believe that, that any brand today it's going to succeed, needs to be able in our minds to build a direct relationship with customers. And we think the easiest way to do that is online.

[00:13:11] And by direct, I don't mean that they have to acquire the customers directly. They're still going to use a middle man for that, whether it's Facebook or Google or somebody else in the future that we haven't even thought of yet. but they have some version of a direct interaction with that customer through.

[00:13:25] A transaction. and that that's sort of primarily how they grew up because we think that's important to kind of learning to tell stories and learning how to develop products and to figure out how to fix their products, et cetera. It's like that quick iteration is only helpful and doable if you have a direct relationship.

[00:13:42] Yup. But that's second. You know, part of getting to scale, is, is putting things in the physical world, whether that's through your own stores. through mixed use retailers, through department stores, will, CFA exists, you know, through, through big box stores. You know, and depending on the category, different types of retail make sense for different folks.

[00:14:00]but yeah, I don't think that's going away. I think people want both kinds of experiences for discovery, for, touching and feeling things for credibility sake. And, and I think it's a, it's a brand's job to kind of show up in all of the places, that a customer could discover them or want to buy them from a repair or reputation standpoint.

[00:14:21] No, I don't think that'll change.

[00:14:22] Rishi Sharma: [00:14:22] Yeah, that makes perfect sense. I know you mentioned a couple of times, you know, customer experience brand. if you could just articulate that in the most simple principle way for the audience. what is the customer experience brand and like any pillars that associate with that.

[00:14:37] JEsse derris: [00:14:37] Yeah, I mean, so the five things I talked about before are the pillars. It's real positioning a product that reflects the positioning. Building a storytelling engine that tell stories about the product and about the positioning that you can figure out a cadence for. Number four is, knowing and operating all of the channels that are effective for your brand at once.

[00:14:57] So that you're creating. I'm sort of this wave of storytelling. So every time you develop a story, knowing the channels that are effective for you, whether it's email or social, or paid social or radio or PR, and telling the same story through all of those channels all at once. So I feel like a wave to consumers.

[00:15:16] And then the fifth, the last thing is, is that they all exist both online and offline. They don't have to on day one, but by you know, day 2000, they tend to have both offline and online experiences. The way I think about this, just from a more macro perspective, is I grew up in the suburbs of long Island.

[00:15:38]and our social network was the mall. Know we went to the mall, see our friends to express what we liked and disliked, to connect with new people, et cetera, and define brands and discover. I'll, the discovery was different. It was governed by the mall landlord. The model landlord and the brands decided which brands were going to be in which malls, the job of the store of each brand.

[00:16:03]well, she's sort of been in, you know, these things. It was number one to attract me to the brand and to their windows, to whatever was going on in the windows. Usually mannequins, dressed in clothes, they folding store. once I was attracted and walked inside, they had to have somebody who. Reflected me or, or I related to kind of greet me.

[00:16:24]they had to have the clothes, folded in a nice way on a table that made me want to walk up to it. Once I got to the table, it had to be the right shape and the right color so that I would pick it up. And by now we're already on like the fourth thing, like, window welcome, you know, walking over to the table.

[00:16:41] I'm finally, you know, and, and. and then liking the stuff on the table. And by the fourth or fifth thing, I'm picking the thing up. And only then does it matter that I liked the way it feels in my hand. It fits me well, and it looks cool. you know, it has a reason to exist on my body, et cetera. and that was fine.

[00:16:57] Like, you know, that world is a world that's driven by merchandising. Yeah. And so the people who matter the most are the ones who pick the right shapes in the right colors and who fold them in the right piles. And the store. It was all different types of merchandising. And that's reflected in the ads. The ads were pretty people in clothing picked by the merchandisers, and that reflected the brand.

[00:17:21] And what change is. that at the mall no longer was the social network. The social network was the social network, and once the mall became infinite and shelving became infinite, it became less about a distribution advantage. Then it became about. you know, being able to tell stories in a way that attracted customers and then retain them through an emotional bond.

[00:17:43] Do you agree with that? Became about storytelling. and once it became about storytelling and about consumers and having a dialogue with them. You had to build a brand that took the customer experience into account. and so to me, that's the biggest thing that the brands that we get to work with and the ones that are succeeding, that they do well, it's that they're thinking about the customer and every single decision that they make.

[00:18:07]whether it's about product development and their product roadmap and the way they introduce products to the world, whether it's about the partnerships that they choose or the way that they treat their employees, or, you know, the way they show up in the physical world. you know, it's a million different things.

[00:18:22] Their customer experience, their customer service I'm team, and the way they approach customer service, their actual customer journey, whether it's on their website and reflected in their digital product or in the. You know, in person experience, like all the best companies think about their customer journey and their customer experience at the center of everything they do.

[00:18:40] That's kind of what we mean about customer experience brands.

[00:18:43] Rishi Sharma: [00:18:43] Thanks for going into the in detail. I think the analogy of the mall was, it's a perfect analogy, I think, or even if you look at, I think a person, a company, it's not in the mall, but I think they do a tremendous job, is Disney. When you walk into a, you walk into a theme park, it's down to the trashcan that it's, it's all related to the experience of they're trying

[00:19:03] JEsse derris: [00:19:03] to deliver, but Disney is like, so this is why I think the direct consumer thing is sort of a ridiculous premise.

[00:19:12] Like Disney has been direct to consumer forever, except for cable. Yeah. You know, they built a product and they sold it directly to people, but what they do amazing is they sell fantasy, right? They sell like this. Childhood wonder meant that adults have the ability to access and walk through these entire model.

[00:19:29] Whether you're thinking about. Can I go back to thinking about that sort of legendary, graphic that he drew, where everything's connected to the one, but it's all driven by the position, by the IP, by the characters they create. and you know, the products that create ladder up to that positioning, that fantasy, whether it's, you know, the beauty and the for the lion King.

[00:19:50]and then the storytelling. that they do through their product is through all the various channels, whether it's cruises or, or the, or the, the, the parks, the movies, the TV, the, this, the, that. It's like all of the various things that they do. I mean, it's incredible. But you think about brands like that, like Nike, like Patagonia, like brands that have just have done this for generations.

[00:20:15]you know, and you know, it's not so much. That the brands of today have created something new. It's that they have used the, the internet and the building of a more intimate relationship with customers to be able to kind of do it in a different kind of newer way for other types of consumer brands that were sort of left in the dark.

[00:20:35] Rishi Sharma: [00:20:35] No, I agree. I think that attention to detail, the kind of just thinking of the customer at all times is really going to deliver that amazing brand experience. so now looking into this, you know, current situation at Cobin and it's looking like a lot of money is also drying up in regards to investments.

[00:20:54] People's risk appetite is less. How do you think that's gonna affect the market as a whole?

[00:21:00] JEsse derris: [00:21:00] I think we're still seeing it shake out. Two broad things though. I think number one, we haven't seen a ton of changes at the early stage level. I know we're still writing checks out of our fund, how many supply? and you know, we're still seeing a bunch of checks getting written.

[00:21:16]and so that candidly hasn't changed. Okay. Hmm. You know, we have seen kind of the growth checks slowdown or people get spooked. but what I actually think is just happening as sort of a retrenchment, where, you know, even six months ago. The founders had all the leverage and people were banking to get into deals.

[00:21:33] And I just think that the folks with money are going to have more of the leverage and the prices and the deals are going to get better. and so it'll be a little bit harder to raise money and people are going to be frustrated, especially if they have dramatic need right now because they're going to get crappy terms.

[00:21:49]but there's plenty of money, you know, sitting, you know, in these funds. And, and. Those guys have an obligation to invest that money over a certain period of time. and so investing is still going to happen.

[00:22:01] Rishi Sharma: [00:22:01] Do you think it's, the requirements are going to change relative to the company's more profitability focused, still looking for growth?

[00:22:08] Where do you think,

[00:22:08] JEsse derris: [00:22:08] yeah, I, you know, I've been that that's sort of a frustrating. There's just a cyclicality to that. you know, we go through different phases in the world where people. Investors are, are, you know, less focused on profitability and more focused on growth. And we're, we were clearly, even before this, I'm going back to the other side of folks who are focused on profitability overgrowth.

[00:22:31] I mean, I just, I think it's sort of, it goes around and around and around and there, there are cycles to this. I, you know, I think investors got spooked because there was a couple of bad companies that. that failed. you know, in the consumer space, like there are all sorts of other spaces, and a couple of others who have underwhelmed when the IPO And it sort of put a damper on it, an entire category, which I think is fairly the wrong way to look about it. Yeah. you know, there's a ton of extremely strong companies in these categories that I think are going to be around for a really long time. Do you know, returned terrific returns for their investors.

[00:23:07] Yep. you know, it's just a kind of a run of bad luck with the companies that were out there. Yeah.

[00:23:13] Rishi Sharma: [00:23:13] I think, cause yeah, it's bad. Look generally. But do you see with the checks that you're writing on the early stage, any changes in consumer behavior that they're keying in on particular insights as these new companies

[00:23:24] JEsse derris: [00:23:24] are?

[00:23:26] I think, listen, I think the COBIT crisis isn't going to accelerate certain behaviors in terms of the way people are buying. But the most curious number that I've seen in the last week or so, was it, Amazon's market share has gotten down, right? Like the pie of online buying has gotten, gotten much, much bigger.

[00:23:42] And clearly a lot of the people are buying groceries at home more now than they were in the past. Different cohorts are and other things, but I mean, the numbers that I saw last week, in the times. Said that, you know, Amazon's overall e-commerce kind of share has gone down 800 basis points. And, you know, for, for me, that's an opportunity.

[00:24:02]you know, I've had, you know, we have a 16 month old daughter. We subscribe and save, to various products that we consume for her diapers and baby wipes and all sorts of things. And they actually haven't fulfilled some of that stuff. Yeah. You know, these are things that we get on a monthly basis and have for 16 months.

[00:24:20] They have us hooked. Yeah. and, you know, instead my wife has gotten emails from them being like, sorry, we just don't have baby wipes for you as well, which is an odd thing to say to a customer that has you on subscription. Yup. and a baby wipe isn't something that is not essential thing, but I hold a line to know and.

[00:24:37]And so I do think it's gonna create opportunities. you know, there are certain companies that have been around for a long time that are going to thrive. I think more people are getting more comfortable with different types of experiences and purchases online and that'll continue to grow. I think that, you know, in the short term, they'll be kind of a, I'm sure run on companies that are promoting thriftiness and things like that.

[00:24:59] But the long tail of this is that customer behavior will revert back to the mean. in terms of the way they spend, it might take a year, it might take two or three years. That's first. The second is that this will accelerate some of the online trends in the third. is, is I, you know, I try to not let all of the short stuff guide the decisions that we're making because I do think the world will return to some level of normalcy in the next couple of years.

[00:25:23] Rishi Sharma: [00:25:23] Okay. And I think it gives great insights on what's. What to look for in the next couple, couple months and years. another thing that you mentioned on, or not mentioned, but it's on your pod, on your website, is this project mercury, if you could just describe that to the audience and kind of what you're trying to achieve with this project.

[00:25:41] JEsse derris: [00:25:41] Yeah, so we're super close with the folks at mythology. eh, we've worked with them for years and years, you know, on all sorts of different brands and. we came together with those guys, with Fernando, with, with Anthony last year to basically identify, you know, one seven of founders a year, and to help them build their brand soup to nuts.

[00:26:01] So everything from, naming and logo and wordmark and all of the creative kind of identity of a brand, all the way up to the positioning work that we do and the strategy to get a brand launched, getting an off the ground content, a million other things. And the idea is. To find founders who haven't been able to access the typical capital markets or don't want to access the tubal capital.

[00:26:23] Typical, typical capital part, partners, and want to use kind of a more creative way to get to market. and so we ended up kind of getting in bed with them and being sort of co-founders. and so we're just in the earliest stages of doing this. you know, at this moment and, and hopefully news to come later this year.

[00:26:40] Okay.

[00:26:41] Rishi Sharma: [00:26:41] Any, any brands have launched from it? From that yet?

[00:26:44] JEsse derris: [00:26:44] No. I mean, we just, we just kind of announced it in January, you know, we're getting close on a brand, but we had paused it for a second while all this was going on until we can get back to some level of normalcy. Okay.

[00:26:55] Rishi Sharma: [00:26:55] That makes sense. That makes sense.

[00:26:57] So there's, we're moving to the final questions. I'm just pretty relatively quick questions. So we'd like to break down all our guests. you know, habits, routines, rituals that they have in their life that kind of pushed them to be successful on a daily basis or weekly basis. However the inner ball is.

[00:27:11] So what, what rituals routines do you have in your life that kind of allow you to be sane day to day as you deal with all the chaos?

[00:27:21] JEsse derris: [00:27:21] All right, man. I mean, I'm a highly habitual person. I've built a lot of my life where I tried to around minimizing, commute time. cause I don't want to spend my time commuting.

[00:27:34]but for me, I, I'm an early, so I go to bed at the same time every night. I wake up the same time every day. I have certain things that I read every morning when I wake up. both political news and business news and technology news. I like to work out three or four days a week. you know, I have a cup of coffee while I'm feeding my daughter in the morning.

[00:27:55] She's up at seven in the morning. When she gets her bottle, I get a cup of coffee. When life is a little bit more normal, I try to leave the office everyday by five 30 so I can be home. To either watch my wife, give our daughter a bottle or to give her a bottle of myself and put her to bed. You know, and for me, I'll allow, the rest of it is about kind of unplugging and finding time to, you know, to get quiet space.

[00:28:17]so, you know, stopping email at a certain point. I'm not really sending emails on the weekends. Finding time to read. you know, catharsis for me is cooking. So at least a few nights a week, although right now, six, seven nights a week, I'm kind of cooking dinner and, and sitting and eating dinner as a family.

[00:28:34]But, but yeah, I'm a fairly ritualized person. I like it to be prepared.

[00:28:39] Rishi Sharma: [00:28:39] That's good to ask a tech. Is there any particular publications that you're reading on daily basis? Do you recommend?

[00:28:46] JEsse derris: [00:28:46] In the morning I read playbook, which is an email that political sends. Then I read Axios am and I read prorata, and I read deal book.

[00:28:55]you know, I get, Stratec URI. I don't know. There's a ton of stuff at this point. You know, I love the meat Yorker by far my favorite magazine. I mean, I think for me, and I say this to our guys all the time, I'm a firm believer, and being wide, not deep. that if you know a little bit about a lot of different things, you have the ability to connect those things in ways you're not even thinking about.

[00:29:20] Okay. so the reason I love the magazine like the new Yorker is I can, you know, obviously read about whatever's going on politically in the world or from a medical perspective. The world. but I can also read about, you know, diamond mining one week. Yeah. Surfing or something that I have no kind of thing about him.

[00:29:35] It's the connections between those things. That is work. Creativity

[00:29:40] Rishi Sharma: [00:29:40] exists. Yeah. I agree. I don't know if you've had a chance to read, but a range by David Epstein. It goes into this, this topic very, very well. So I definitely agree with that.

[00:29:53] JEsse derris: [00:29:53] It's a great book. I've recommended it to a, a bunch of our interns and other folks in college.

[00:29:59]that sort of meandering path thing I described at the beginning, like understanding that that's a feature, not a bug. Yeah. I think it is important, but, But he talks about the salon. I didn't quite realize that this was what I was doing until I had read research like his, that kind of all the reading that I do that has not fit.

[00:30:16] It's like a total non-sequitur when it comes to my job or anything else that we're doing that, that's where creativity comes from. but it's connections between, you know, from one industry another, where you see kind of creativity board.

[00:30:31] Rishi Sharma: [00:30:31] Yeah, I agree with that. so just moving to the next question, what does personal care

[00:30:36] mean

[00:30:36] JEsse derris: [00:30:36] to you?

[00:30:39] Who were smoking? You mean like in terms of shaving and

[00:30:41] Rishi Sharma: [00:30:41] stuff? Like you can take it however you want as a, you know, emotional, emotional type of context, category, business category. Just how do you define it when you're, when you look back at it. Oh,

[00:30:52] JEsse derris: [00:30:52] fair. All right. That's a, that's a broader way to ask it.

[00:30:55] But what is personal care? I mean, to me. Just in the broadest possible context. I think it's really important for people to contextualize the individual things they're experiencing in their life. Because I, you know, what I like to say is there's no Hill that you get to stand on and gaze at at the end.

[00:31:15] That's just not the way life works. Like life is the actual journey. and so you probably shouldn't hate it on a day to day basis. Yeah. and so for me, like true personal care, Is being honest enough with yourself, to try to find something that you're going to do repetitively, that doesn't suck to you.

[00:31:35]and you know, I think that's different for every single person. But for me, it's, it's, it's trying to figure out the best possible way to enjoy the journey.

[00:31:44] Rishi Sharma: [00:31:44] I think that's a succinct way of putting it, for sure. so next question. you said you were ha, yeah. Like very Andrea, and you'll read one thing from it.

[00:31:51] I think. What is the one thing right now that trips us with learning more about right

[00:31:55] JEsse derris: [00:31:55] now? None. I'm obsessed with learning more about, I've been reading a lot, well, two things I've been reading. I've been reading Wolf hall. I'm like super into like all the tutors and stuff, and I finally got to that book. And so that's been sort of fascinating. I just, the construction of it's awesome. And then honestly, Japanese, catch good knives.

[00:32:14] Nice. yeah, you can go pretty deep once you start getting into them. There's a bunch of different sites where you can buy, pretty directly, from knife makers. in Osaka got another parts of Japan. It's not correctly. I mean, there's the middle man, but this, the site called chef knives to go, have you ever want to spend a hundred hours learning about Japanese?

[00:32:34] Cutlery and that's your place. I've been doing a lot of bad. Yeah. Honestly.

[00:32:40] Rishi Sharma: [00:32:40] That's cool. That's cool. so just last question. what's one thing, whether professionally, you know, or non professionally that you just like as a myth that's out there that you wanted to bump.

[00:32:52] JEsse derris: [00:32:52] By myself or just in general?

[00:32:54] Rishi Sharma: [00:32:54] Just generally. You can be yourself, could be, could be about the industry you're in. It could be, you know, pathway, life philosophy, et cetera.

[00:33:04] JEsse derris: [00:33:04] What is one thing, one myth I'd like to dispel?

[00:33:10]I think for me, you know, I think for a lot of times. For a lot of the last 50 years, PR people have been sort of the, the wicked bastard stepchildren of the marketing mix. you know, they were forever sat at the kids' table. they were seen, not heard. they were told what to do and expected to do it.

[00:33:31] Yeah. And I think that one of the amazing things about what's going on right now. Is that the skill that we've all owned forever as our jobs, I call it the earned media mindset. This idea of how do you get somebody to click on something, whether directly or indirectly, metaphorically, whatever, without having the ability to pay them to do it.

[00:33:52]that that mindset is King right now. you know, that obviously, you know, PR is PR and telling stories that reporters will care about it as the S is pretty similar as it's always been a little different. but the way social works, the way direct response ads works, even the way out of homeworks and partnerships and all these other things reflects that mindset.

[00:34:12] Yeah. and so I, I would say like the biggest myth, Is that PR people are stupid. and that people who grew up in PR stupid, you know, I think, sure, there's plenty of stupid PR people like there are in any industry. but it's this mindset that's governing the customer experience right now. And to me, it's the more valuable of the mindsets out there in the marketing mix at the moment.

[00:34:36] Rishi Sharma: [00:34:36] Okay. That's a good one. so thank you so much for taking the time to do this podcast. Really appreciate it. if listeners wanted to connect with you or Derrius and company, where should they look?

[00:34:47] JEsse derris: [00:34:47] Honestly, they can just go to our website, which is www dot dot com. and I still get to see the info email, so just email the info address at Doris and it'll end up on my desk.

[00:34:59] Right.

[00:34:59] Rishi Sharma: [00:34:59] Thank you so much again. Thank you so much, Jesse.

[00:35:02] JEsse derris: [00:35:02] Thanks, Rodney.

[00:35:03] Rishi Sharma: [00:35:03] Bye.

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