EP. 2 - Fabian Geyrhalter —How to Create a Memorable Brand

If you infuse heart and soul into a venture, and if you create a distinct voice, and if you share values with your customers, then you actually will turn into a brand.Fabian Geyrhalter
Fabian Geryhalter -How to Create A Memorable Brand

Renowned Brand Strategist and Creative Director Fabian Geyrhalter is a prolific author and speaker on the subject of branding. He is the founder and principal of Los Angeles-based brand consultancy FINIEN. Geyrhalter is a columnist for Forbes and Inc and has been published by the likes of The Washington Post, Entrepreneur and Mashable. His best-selling book ‘How to Launch a Brand’ became a go-to resource for entrepreneurs and creatives alike. His latest book is ‘Bigger Than This - How to turn any venture into an admired brand.’ Geyrhalter is also the host of ‘Hitting The Mark,’ a podcast about the intersection of brand clarity and startup success. Through his consultancy, Geyrhalter works hands-on with medium-sized to large corporations on crafting strategic, verbal and visual brand clarity. His client list includes Honeywell, United Way, Warner Brothers, and Goodwill. Geyrhalter is a distinguished "Global 100" mentor at the Founder Institute and has held adjunct professor positions at ArtCenter College of Design and USC.

✅ Hey guys! Enjoy this EPIC interview w/ acclaimed top-selling author, gifted speaker, and Brand Consult Fabian Geyrhalter! Fabian takes us all the way back to his college days and shares with us his backstory which ultimately shaped his career and his future!🙌 Fabian shares TONS of gems in this one! What is your favorite lesson from this interview?! Let us know in the comment section below!

Fabian Geyrhalter has shared his valuable insight from work with Fortune 500 Companies.🔥 Fabian was featured in Forbes, Entrepreneur Magazines and many more!

Transcript :

Rishi Sharma: [00:00:30] Hey everyone. Welcome to take care. Today's guest is a two-time bestselling author named two founder institutes global 100 Fabian girl halter, the principal of Finien, which specializes in strategic, verbal, and visual brand clarity.

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:00:43] Welcome, Fabian. We're

Rishi Sharma: [00:00:44] really excited to

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:00:45] have you here with us. Thanks for having me.

Really appreciate it. Just

Rishi Sharma: [00:00:48] like to start from the very beginning, you know, where did your entrepreneurial and brand journey begin.

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:00:55] Wow. The very beginning, I didn't want to go too far, far back, but I studied communication design at art center, college of design, which was in Europe. it was beautiful.

And Lake Geneva, overlooking the mob law. It was a wonderful, and then one day the college told us that they're closing down at school and they're actually having, the main campus over in Pasadena, California. And so we all moved from Switzerland over to, to Pasadena. And it was like this influx of like 300.

European kits in the , which is outside of Los Angeles. Right? And so that's kind of how it started, like working on identity design, working on communication design. After I finished college, I decided to stick around a little bit just for my resume. And as that always goes, you know, one shop leads to another opportunity, and then.

I got green cards and I started my brands and graphic design agency. I think literally the day after I got my green card was when I was legally allowed to, I quit my main job. I was the creative director at that point, working with Acura as at the car brands. I quit my job. And, and I started my agency and I ran it.

It was called guy hope. The design company ran that for 12 years. and then it started focusing more on brand strategy, about six years. And I started a consultancy called Finian. That's great.

Rishi Sharma: [00:02:13] Great summary in the backstory, it's like, just take it from the beginning when you mentioned communications, design and brand design, somebody that might not be in your particular industry or an entrepreneur, that's just.

Now approaching or trying to tackle these things, what does that actually mean?

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:02:28] If you could provide some examples as well? Yeah, absolutely. Communication design was a smart way of the European campus, to call graphic design because graphic design it needs with graphic and it seems a little bit self-indulgent, like art, you know, it's graphic, but communication design really implies that idea that you are communicating on behalf of a company, on behalf of the brands.

That's really what communication design is. And in brand design and brand strategy, it's really thinking about how do you move a product or a service into a brand that people recognize it like, right? So in the end, you want to be a brand that makes it into your tribe's social channels. I always liked that metaphor, right?

Like that idea that. People don't follow many brands. I mean, I don't know, Rishi, how many, how many brands you actually follow on Instagram? You know, there's most probably, I don't know, 20% brands and 80% friends, right? But when you actually follow these couple of friends, they behave more like friends.

They actually enrich your life, and they are amicable and personable. And that's what branding really is, you know, to create that path. Yeah, to becoming that. Then it's in the end, that's really heart and soul. Do you know? If you infuse heart and soul into a venture, and if you create a distinct voice, and if you share values with your customers, then you actually will turn into a brand.

Rishi Sharma: [00:03:47] Yeah. No, I definitely agree with that. You know, every brand that I follow, I don't follow too many. Like he's like you mentioned, but the brands that I follow, the, they're like different friends, right? You have certain friends you go to for education, certain friends who go to feel a certain way, some to connect in another way.

So definitely agree with that.

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:04:05] Totally. Yeah.

Rishi Sharma: [00:04:07] So let's

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:04:08] go a bit into

Rishi Sharma: [00:04:09] statement that you mentioned on your website, turning brands, turning ventures into brands. What does that mean to you and how do you approach that with your clients?

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:04:20] You know, it's really very much this story from point a to point B, right?

So as we talked about that idea of brands turning more into friends and they're being part of a tribe and people actually look forward to seeing their content. That's really depth. PAF I'm trying to get. Startups onto that path very early on. So we assist them in turning into brands, foster, right? By having sounds brand strategy, creating a great brand name, and you know how difficult it is, right?

If you've been down that path. Exactly. And, and you know, enticing visual and verbal language around it, right? Like you have to set that up. And what we are trying to do is we're trying to create that strategy. To infuse that heart and soul into the company and create that visual and verbally. Which around this very, very early on, so that when the actual launch or when they actually get their investment or whatever it is, that takes them to the next level, when the public sees the brand more than they're already equipped with, kind of like the layer, that layer of insurance that, Hey, we have that set.

You know, like we'd good to go with the brand level. Now we have to make sure that our product is up to par to those services, great, et cetera, et cetera.

Rishi Sharma: [00:05:29] Thank you for going into that. So should I take it to begin to somebody that might be a novice? What would you describe is a brand in the simplest terminology?

And then how does branding different from marketing.

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:05:43] So boy, you know, I mean, look, I live in brief branding, right? It's so difficult to say like, what is branding? And I have so many ounces for that. I think I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna pick one of them. I mean, to me, I feel a brand is a company that has.

More than more than a product or service, but that actually shares values with their tribe that has that heart and soul. That's really what it is. And then to the second part of your question, how does branding differ from marketing? I actually hear that a lot and a lot of people confuse that. And then there's also on top of it, the term brand marketing, right?

Which is more confusing, right? But branding was this marketing. So branding. You can really look at it as the why right? An end, Simon sign that comes to mind, right? Like the big question why? And then marketing is the followup question. Okay, how right? So, so why is, why does this company exist? Why would people deeply care?

Why do we do what we do and why does it stick with people? And then the how is okay to, how do we actually communicate. What channels do we go into? And that's marketing, right? That's really figuring out how do you get that voice out there and the message out there. But why is to define, okay? You know, like, like what is it that we do and by what people deeply care about it.

Rishi Sharma: [00:06:58] Thank you for breaking that out. So when you go back to describing branding in one of the many answers you presented, what are some brands out there that you are fans of? That they are hitting on, connecting with their why with their audience and their core demographic. Who's doing a great job? Who's somebody that somebody should aspire to have their business?

So be working with or owe her like

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:07:23] out there. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, they're, they're the usual subjects right there. Like the pedagogy as of the world that do a really great job on many levels. But what I'm actually much more excited about is the underdogs, right? Like brands that come out today in, in days of technology and disruption.

And. The are completely commodity offerings, right? Like brands that actually have nothing new to offer yet people fall in love with them. And I actually read the whole book about this last year, and I think it's called bigger than this, and I studied some of these really cool brands like Everlane, Everlane sells super basic apparel.

There's absolutely no innovation, right? There's just the most basic apparel. Really well dumb apparel, but the only way to differentiate is because the lead with radical transparency, and it's really cool because they actually created an auditing system to audit their own factories. I mean, that's insane, right?

Like they audit their own factories and now the gift that system to any other apparel company to become more humane. Right. Until those stories. People, especially, you know, like the next generation, millennials and, and I guess no one cares about millennials anymore. It's all about chintzy but, but Gen Z, right?

Generation Z, really, they love that. It's important to them. They've been screwed over so much by so many dishonest politicians and dishonesty. Brands, all the scandals everyday with Johnson and Johnson, baby powder, whatever it is, right? Like if he remembered that their parents did embark and now they really don't want to go that route anymore, so I'm more interested in those kinds of friends that come out and they stand for something or they have a really, really strong.

Belief a story. And that's what turns them into, into brands. And the cool thing is anyone can do it, right? I mean, it's, it's really in the end, that's a formula. And when I say formula, I don't mean that anyone should just apply it in a dishonest way. But if you honestly say, you know, like, this is what I believe and this is what I want my company to be.

A lot of founders today think of the company as truly an extension of their own beliefs. And I think that is. Great because you will find a niche market that totally looks ITI with you, or at least, so those are the brands that I've really enjoyed these days.

Rishi Sharma: [00:09:33] Thank you. Thank you for you. Answer that. And I think I'm so empowering what you just said,

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:09:37] because

Rishi Sharma: [00:09:38] you know, I think most people, when they talk about startups or somebody starting a company, it's always focusing on the high technology type of companies out there.

And to know that. Companies that are essentially just a commodity company like Everlane or otherwise. Just building a business based on your story and your values can have such a resonance with an audience. So thank you for giving those examples. So switching it over to another aspect of branding that's coming a bit more popular out there is.

So when it comes to branding, you mentioned a lot in your answers, storytelling and connecting with the audience, but taking that to what everybody talks about now, AI and data and everything else out there, how much does should data play in your everyday branding decisions or branding execution.

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:10:24] Look, data is super important, right?

I mean, there's, there's so much latent data hanging out, and we could all just be much, much smarter companies if we would study more data. But on the other hand, that's talking marketing, right? But if we talk about branding, again, branding more being the Y. There's a big risk with data. I mean, you know, study it, right?

Study the data, but don't always use it because data can be wrong too, right? It's not that idea that, Oh, because it's written here. That's right. No, because it's still a human that actually creates the algorithms of how that data is being spit out. Right. So I hear from a lot of founders where they say, look, you know, like we actually heard.

That our audience is actually, you know, like not that well educated, you know, some of them have high school diplomas. No one goes to college. We have to keep our language really, really, you know, non-sophisticated really simple, kind of dumbing things down a little bit, and then they realize that the data was completely off, right.

They changed their brands for a couple of moms into a direction that was completely off-putting to the audience. So it is not always right. Right. And a lot of branding is based on emotion, right? It's based on human intelligence. And I guess the human is part of that. So study it, but I don't always use it.

Rishi Sharma: [00:11:36] Yeah, no, thank you. I think that's, that's crucial advice. So I'll just segue that again into, so let's just say a

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:11:43] psoas, give

Rishi Sharma: [00:11:44] some takeaways to people, something that they can have some exceptions. So what are some. Top branding tips that you would recommend to somebody who's either building their personal brand and, or an actual businesses brand,

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:11:57] you know, personal brand and businesses brand to me, a pretty different, but you know, like, let's hone in more on the business brands because, you know, I'm, I'm more of an expert with that.

I think personal brands should be very organic and very truthful. and, and I think with a business brand, there's a little more. That needs to go into it. So I think the first thing is really understand the process. To understand the branding process, understand what needs to happen first, second, third, right.

A lot of people just come up with the name of the company in the shower, right? And they're like, that's it. I had a great idea. Well, that's not how you come up with a name. For instance. The name needs to go back to brand strategy. It needs to go back to the why again. Right? Then if you come up with it. You know, over a glass of wine or in the shower.

It's most probably not. Going back to what is really the definition of the company. What is the mission? What is the vision? What are our values? Right? And that's what the name needs to, for instance, have in it. To understand the process. There are tons of tools online that you can get. One of them is my book, how to launch a brand where it literally just goes like step by step.

So that's important. The other one is. Branding is in the details, right? So be diligent and you know, death. you know, it's like, it's so important because if you say, Nah, that's all right, and now we can let that go. And then in the end, you just have a crappy product. You have a crappy brand, and if you cut too many corners, you know it's going to show.

So, show empathy to your audience. That's super important. That's also about being diligent, right? Being diligent to always answer all of the comments to like them, to get them. Back to people to start the community and be consistent, right? We look at Coca Cola and the brands color hasn't changed ever, right?

Well, Pepsi Cola is trying to do this and trying to do that and it's like good luck. And so it's the idea of, you know, it's kind of like a legacy company to bring up, but it's still the idea for a startup and for younger companies. Hit them over the head. Right. Just because you constantly see the same brands because you put it out there, no, that people only see one 10 for 100 of what you put out there.

So just keep hitting people over the head with your brands and language and your brand design.

Rishi Sharma: [00:13:57] Yeah, no, definitely agree with that. So, you know, I think there's a marketing and branding adage. The customer doesn't. No what you're saying or any, anything you say to them, unless they hear it seven times. So just continually pushing it, pushing it to them and all the vehicles out there so that your message resonates and you start to build that trust that

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:14:17] you need.

Rishi Sharma: [00:14:18] So yeah. To the audience out there. I definitely recommend taking up this book. I used data over the last 18 months myself as I'm building my own brand. And, it was incredibly helpful for me. So I definitely

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:14:30] recommend that. Oh, that's great because, you know, I don't want to push my product on your podcast, but if you push it for me that love that.

Rishi Sharma: [00:14:38] So I just want to go into more of your entrepreneurial journey. So you've been an Alien entrepreneur since you got that green card almost 25 years ago. What are some of the things that you would say are

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:14:48] led to your success

Rishi Sharma: [00:14:50] and need you to work and successful founders that you work with? What do they

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:14:53] have

Rishi Sharma: [00:14:54] in common?

Things that are made you successful and then other successful founders that you've

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:14:57] worked with? Yeah, I mean, there's, there's so much, but I mean, some. Some things that come to mind. you know, something that helped me tremendously and it took me way too long in my life to get there is seeing no, and basically starting with no and then moving to it.

Yes. Right. idea of like, the more you say no to not the right opportunity or something that you have to work up less hard for or whatever it is. Say no. Often it's, as an entrepreneur, we have this idea of like every opportunity is a great opportunity. No, every, every opportunity is just an opportunity.

In order to get the great ones, you have to say no to a lot of the medial group at once. So that's important. And then having a narrow view. Focus and an open mind, right. Just keep doing the one thing you do and become the best at that. Right. It sounds so cliche. Most of us don't do it because we, you know, again, when to printers, we have 50 ideas every day, right?

But we have to suppress and say, look, focus on what's ahead of you and just really become damn good in it. And don't be afraid to ask favors. You know, like the idea that it took me a long time to write. People love to give advice. People in, in entrepreneurship, people love to help each other much more so than in any other industry.

So if you come from a, from a regular, you know, nine to five job, you would never know that because it's all about backstabbing and like climbing up the career ladder, right in the entrepreneurship world. And you notice it's amazing how you can just ask for favors and people will have lunch with you, they will have dinner with you, they will get on a call with you, and then of course you in return.

Half if back, right, with your knowledge and kindness. So I mean, those are some of the things, but I guess, you know, this can go on forever by that. But I think that idea of real, real sharp focus on what you do and what's ahead of you. Yeah, no, I, I

Rishi Sharma: [00:16:43] completely agree with that. I think just in being an entrepreneur, being a founder out there, it's you just realize and understand how hard it is to put something out in the world to try to make an impact.

And I think that commonality of empathy for knowing what the other person's going through, just like you said, it just passes from one

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:17:02] person to the next. Absolutely.

Rishi Sharma: [00:17:04] So I want to go to principal. You said about learning to say no to a lot of things. So you at one point had a very successful creative agency, many, many employees, and several years ago you decided to shrink that down to a very limited operation.

As people are out there dealing with either deciding to scale a business or to kind of keep it at the same pace. How do you make the decision to kind of reduce the size of what you're working on and say no to a lot of the other opportunities out there?

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:17:36] Well, yeah, I mean, for 12 years I said yes to everything I said yes to pretty much every job, right?

I'm like, Oh, this is a small job, but that's okay. Oh, does he? Huge job. We might not be perfect for it, but that's okay. You know, here's a chop that needs something that we're not 100% accustomed to, but we can learn it. Right? So there's a lot of that stuff going on. and it's just that for you, right? And talking about lifestyle, it's just really, healthy.

And I also, you know, I grew to company, I think at the maximum height, there were 18 people. And there was no middle management because I was such a, such an aspiring perfectionist. I, you know, I see aspiring perfectionist because I'm such a perfectionist that I don't even think I am a true perfectionist.

I'm just aspiring to it. Right. But it's like I needed middle management, but I couldn't really have. Middle management. So that was a personal thing that I just had a hard time working through. And even though we did amazing client work and I grew my talent pool tremendously, I personally actually didn't grow financially a lot.

So over those years, you know, everyone else has to get raises and it's very competitive. You know, me and myself running the company, I started seeing, Oh my God, this is turning more into a hobby, but I'm actually that I'm showing it being in the office at eight o'clock at night, you know? And it's just a tough business to be in, right?

I'm the graphic design business was very difficult to be in the brand business, you know, turned very difficult with fiber and all of these automated services out there. So. I knew I needed to change something for a lot of reasons, right? I mean, those also for my personal growth, I started to be more interested in the why behind brands rather than how they look.

Right? So I started going more into strategy and you know, and it just set down and I basically said, look, in a perfect world, if I wouldn't even have this company, what do I want to work on? And with whom do I want to. Work on this. And, and I decided, look, the easiest way is for me to actually close shop over the next six months.

Make sure everyone has enough time to actually find a new job, help everyone find a new job. And, you know, I kept the rest, on staff and we started creating the outline of my new firm and the outlet of my book, how to launch a brand that actually supported the launch and just wanted to create a baby simple process and a simple offering where there's no more proposals and no more taking on work that does not fall into my.

Three simple categories and you know, and you can tell when there's a company that's not hungry for work anymore, right? You know, we have a small footprint and now we attract the constant stream of clients. so I don't have to do a lot of new business because we have this very narrow focus and deep expertise.

So, and an Indian financially, you know, it's been a Hugh mungus change for me about this last couple of years of making that change. So sometimes you actually have to just. Understand what it would mean if you would keep going one direction, even though to the outside it looks really successful in the end.

It's about your own personal happiness and fulfillment, right?

Rishi Sharma: [00:20:24] Yeah. No, I definitely, definitely agree with that. I think it's about, like you said, saying no to certain opportunities so you can say yes to things that make you more happy and. You know, hopefully are more lucrative as well over the longterm for you.

So definitely agree with that. So I want to go back to leave. One last question in regards to branding. So since you brought up your experience over the last 25 years, just would like to ask, over the 25 years, how

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:20:52] has

Rishi Sharma: [00:20:52] branding in 1997 or in the nineties to now being in 2020 how has a brand changed or has it not changed?

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:21:01] Like to kind of just go into that a little

Rishi Sharma: [00:21:02] bit.

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:21:03] Do you know what changed completely. I mean, it's pretty amazing when you think about it, right? Because we still have logos, right? We still have colors. We still have type phases, but the way that brands behave and the way that brands are being adopted, and it totally changed.

I mean, obviously social media, huge, right? I mean, just the idea that anyone can start a brand overnight. And just put it out there. And with Kickstarter and with all of these opportunities to just say, Hey, we pretend we have a product, but we don't have one yet, and then literally in six months later, you can be a big brand.

I mean, that's, that's insane. Right? That wouldn't have happened in the 90s and brands are transparent today. Friends are honest, if he's, you know, like people look for them to be that, right? So the idea of a brand screwing up and not talking about it or not doing anything about it, we see it over and over.

It doesn't happen anymore. Right? Like if Starbucks screws up, you know, the, the whole world knows about it the next day and everyone points fingers for them to make a change. And then two days later there's a big change, right. United airlines, right. The way that they misbehave over the last two years, it changed completely.

It's a very different brand today than it was two years ago. And so that is. Right? So it's not only how brands are being perceived and how would you can also interact with the brands. I mean, in the 90s, how would you have interacted with a brand? Literally, you went to the website, which at that point was most probably flash and really cumbersome, and it was a little experience and that was it.

And there was no feedback. There was no input. Now, you know, if you're, you know, pissed at brands, you tweet them. You go on Instagram, you and within an hour you receive something back. If not, you are going on a whole roll online, you know, to like brand shame them, you know? So I mean there's a lot going on.

There's positive and negative aspect to it. But I think the same way that we see politics changing now, and you know, like this kind of like this uprising right now for, you know, democracy and you know, there's a lot of friends out the see, Oh we are democratizing X. You know, and those are, those are the kinds of friends that I think.

It's just as culture changes, as technology changes, brand's changed tremendously.

Rishi Sharma: [00:23:10] Thank you for detailing that and going through that. So I just want to get into some of the

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:23:13] final questions here.

Rishi Sharma: [00:23:15] So take care as a podcast, the cheers, the routines and habits and rituals of Changemakers like yourself. So I'd like to kind of just get into that, understand your routines a little bit.

You know, do you have a morning routine or any other routines in your day that you can share with the audience?

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:23:29]

Yeah, I mean, look, morning routine for me is most probably not the most exciting, I think. I think what is important to me in the morning is to, be up in the India office on the early side. I love to get a headstart, so everything, but now that I have so many clients in Europe, that's kind of feeling, because I come in with a mailbox, you know, I mean, some things that I do, I just do take certain.

Time periods to think and to write and to create, right? So I'm just like you, I have a podcast. I'm, I recorded every two weeks. and I invite founders that I haven't worked with that I don't know, right? And I, I have them tell me about branding because even though I am the specialist and I have all that experience, it's different every time.

Hearing from a founder, how they did it and what were their problems. And so I invest a lot of. Time and money into constantly getting knowledge. And you know, like since yours, since your podcast is also leaning a little bit towards personal care, for me, it is so important to be smart about my body and my mind.

Right? So, you know, you have to know what's good for you. So for me, it's, it's pretty insane. But, I take. Daily hot bath every day, right at night. That's at least 30 minutes where I read at least one business magazine. and literally do that every day with exception of a couple of nights, whatever events or anything I attend.

But there's this amazing balance and nurture that's between my body and my mind that I find during the time. And it's really sacred to me. And it actually, over the years I started understanding more and more how that little bit of time where you actually, on the one hand, you, you totally relaxed the body to do something good.

Body, you distress, but Anita had your intake information. Right? So it's this really cool thing where I feel like I'm actually growing while I'm relaxing. So that's one of, that's one of the things that I do that's most probably pretty uncommon, but I really enjoy it. Thank you. Thank you for going

Rishi Sharma: [00:25:20] into that.

So, yeah, since you mentioned it about personal care, I'd just like to understand, to you, what does personal care mean to you

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:25:27] as a term. You know, it's really that it's, it's, it's body and minds and being good to both of them. and it's really easy to say, and it is really tough to accomplish for anyone.

And I think everyone is struggling. And the fun thing is, and you might know that out of your own personal experience too, since we both live, you know, on the West coast and California and you know, Los Angeles area of Venice beach, that area, there's the more, the more people. Our wellness gurus or meditation addicts, the more you realize they too have huge issues.

It's like there's, there's a lot that sometimes there's even more, you know, where that came from. and so it's really that idea of finding that balance. That to me is personal care, right? Because whatever you put on your body, whatever you put in your body and whatever you expose your mind to, that's all.

To me, that's all. Personal care, right? So of course, of course it's important. You know, the moisturize I put in the morning and that I even put it on right. And to even look at, Oh, what is it made off? Right? I mean, I'm, I'm using something called choose beauty nutrient moisturizer. I've been using it forever and it's actually made with organic Apple juice, right?

And then I have these people in my podcast of these founders of the company. You're going to get a kick out of that. It's called. It's liquor. So it's literally natural view of the rounds that's made with whiskey. Wow. It's called liquor and it's really, really hilarious. And they've just been on my podcast.

I would love anyone's go to, to check out that we had episodes, and so I'm now actually using it. Yeah. Because it is so smart to actually use whiskey because it is an alcohol that doesn't have anything negative in it than it immediately evaporates. You don't smell like you just came out of a bar. But it's those kinds of things where you just really look into your products and you look into what you put into your, into your body, and that's personal care as much as taking a bath, which is, you know, trying to find time to meditate.

Rishi Sharma: [00:27:18] Thank you. Thank you for detailing that. I definitely agree with a lot on that answer. So I just want to finish up with two final questions.

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:27:25] So what would be

Rishi Sharma: [00:27:25] a common myth in your line of. Profession or field that you would want to debunk.

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:27:31] Well, I mean, the easiest is branding is logo design, right? A lot of people think branding is a logo, and that's obviously debunk, right?

There's so much more to a brand. That's the most common myth about the profession. Okay, thank you.

Rishi Sharma: [00:27:45] And where can listeners connect with you

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:27:48] online? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, they can go to finian.com that's F I, N I E n.com that pretty much has all the links. Find the latest book they can go to bigger than this.com and I'm very active on Instagram at handlers underscore Finian on the score.

All right.

Rishi Sharma: [00:28:05] Thank you. Thank you for being here. Appreciate it.

Fabian Geyrhalter : [00:28:08] Yeah, absolutely. Likewise, this was really great. Thank you. Rish.


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